Military Clones

Science has had the ability to create clones for years, however, due to persecution from Religious Zealots, Human cloning has been banned and considered taboo.

Imagine the ban on human cloning is lifted, and becomes a successful science. Scientists can use DNA to build any kind of human they want.

Here is the idea: The military can now create and mass produce a cloned Soldier.

Side A: The military force is replaced almost entirely by clones. Expendable and replaceable manpower. If these clones die in combat, there are no more grieving families. No more children without parents due to war.

Side B: Though genetically identical, Clones have feelings and emotions and differ in subtle ways. It is not right to create an existence and force it to fight and die against it's will, after all, how would you feel if after you were born you were told you have no rights and your sole purpose is to kill until you yourself are killed?


Choose a side and discuss your opinions.

im for the B side...
i just remembered a movie..
where they do the same but with the purpose of using the clones for organs , transplantations, pregnancy, etc...
"the island" if i remember correctly...

but yeah..
it isnt right to do so...
after all... yes they have an own soul...
and though having the same DNA... they are individuals.... or are all twins the same?

Side B, and furthermore I would like to say that anyone who takes side A better have some good reasons.

Lets take a look at how clones are made: I wont go into detail, but their genetics can be altered and is copied from one/or multiple people and then a couple other steps occur that involve a cell and a nucleus, then the clones would be put into a mother and grow just like a normal human being.

Conclusion: They are normal humans with altered DNA...still people, and all people are created equal so it wouldn't be right to strip them of their rights.

Side B... even though side A has it's cons, mankind should never make others suffer, unless the 'others' are evil.

I would also be for Side B.

The only instance I've heard of people arguing that cloning would be okay is when someone's life is in danger and they need an organ or something.
I am, however, a strong believer in whatever happens happens for a reason. Human beings have no place playing God, deciding who lives and whether or not someone is worth saving.
A clone is a clone, sure. But it's the clone of an animal. If you cut them, they will bleed. If you hurt them, they'll feel the pain. In no instance should they be massively "produced" for military purposes.

though cloning organs is a completely different thing...
as science is able for example... produce skin... pure skin ... growing in some petri dish... which then can be used on ppl with burns...
the same with other organs...

Side B, they may have the same body, but they are diffrent people, diffrent Souls, just like twins. Just because a person is grow instead of born does not mean they are anyless Human.

cloning organs I say is pushing it, no because it is wrong, infact it could help many, but is would also blow the door wide open for Human Cloneing if it is not controled.

I wonder if clones even have souls...

I wonder if anyone has a soul. Due to my name that may sound ironic, but a soul is not a tangible object, more of an expression, IMO.

While a soul may be some sort of expression or symbol, it still represents what makes us people/animals.
The ability to make choices, thought processes, feel feelings... it's not like these are things people can just throw away.

I mean, come on... Edward Scissor Hands was human enough for me~

i dont see the problems about cloning organs...
sure... youre saying it might get out of control and ppl start clone whole humans...
but about the cloning organs itself... there is nothing bad about it...

No, clone's the Organs themselfs is not bad, but it's the Doors that it open's that are. It would have to be Strictly controled.

since side A hasnt been taken ill do it.

clones may be human but they will also be noted as property, property has no rights unless given to it. clones can be used in the military so not using young men that have families and a social bond, clones wont have this ability unless given the will and chance for this experience. i believe what makes a human is the experiences that human is given to improve him/herself a clone wouldnt have the basic knowledge of this unless taught in the same atmosphere as humans.

overall clones are created not borned if they are borned they come from another human being to be considered a human being otherwise if they dont come from another human being how could they ever be called human beings??

they are clones.


...

meh

What makes us humans is our feelings... our humanity... our compassion... our ability to love and adore... our ability to make friends... and our thoughts... it doesn't matter if were born, created or cloned neither if our body resembles that of a human
Noone is noone's... nobody has any rights to any other living being may that be human or animal... no living being exists to be used... end of discussion >.<
I vote for side A...

Edited by Ryu.

I hate when we debate... soon we start to take all of this too seriously...
Dk, it's best to be part of the human species no matter what you think, there's nothing above us (that we know of scientifically)... and living beings will be killed every day because there will always be evil in this world and it's also used for survival, just because some people don't share your opnion doesn't mean you have to be like them.
But every body should keep in mind that murder is murder no matter whatever way you look at it. Even if you killed someone for a cause you think would make the world a better place, it's still murder.

You know better than that DK, both bypassing the swear filter and presenting your point in a non-professional way.

While I disagree with all your animal based opinions, I do believe that your entitled to your opinion and that so long as you present it without disrespecting others and do it within an appropriate manner I will allow it....this was not present.

Furthermore I would like to say one thing that I have ALWAYS seen consistent in all people that argue for animal rights and what not. They haven't seen the other side of the equation, what you must to do one side is done to the other.

Sure some animals are killed and potentially eaten but some of them are necessary for people to maintain healthy diets. At the same time, in the country cows, chickens and all other animals are pampered. They are needed a couple times a day/week but other than that they can eat grass, sleep, and use the bathroom wherever they feel like. Thats pretty much it.

So what your saying is the fast food industries are the only people who toture animals? xD
I can agree with that. o.o
Anyway it is nessesary for humans and other living spicies to eat meat and kill other animals (not including our own kind though...).
It's survival of the fittest... also read Darwin's theory of evolution, if you ever get the chance.

You know better than that DK, both bypassing the swear filter and presenting your point in a non-professional way. Neutral

While I disagree with all your animal based opinions, I do believe that your entitled to your opinion and that so long as you present it without disrespecting others and do it within an appropriate manner I will allow it....this was not present.

maybe I know, maybe I don't. sorry for swearing, but it's just that when you see the same old stuff every day like I do and try to change the world in good manners... well... nothing ever happens (and it is both tiresome and mind breaking) ... people do not change by calmness and do not try to understand its source... something needs to be done to change them... and that would be a life altering experience... not many have seen what I've seen and felt what I felt... not many have sat countless hours meditating and observing trying to understand life and it's miracles and many more things about the world in which we live in... that's why I never expect people to understand me... when someone is too bothered about the material world he can never understand the "spiritual" world fully

Furthermore I would like to say one thing that I have ALWAYS seen consistent in all people that argue for animal rights and what not. They haven't seen the other side of the equation, what you must to do one side is done to the other.

now what do the underlined words mean??? I do not understand... maybe it is just my limited knowledge of english... but hey... I'm not a native speaker like you

Sure some animals are killed and potentially eaten but some of them are necessary for people to maintain healthy diets.

Yeah... and I'm professor Albert Einstein... not "some"... better say "most"... since the population of animals that is grown to be used is much bigger than the ones who actually grow on the wild and the ones who do grow on the wild are killed by deliberate forest chop downs... fires, roads and son on and so on.... a healthy diet? I am much healthier than people of my age because my body has very few toxins and the daily income of the nutrients, proteins and such that I need to take I take without taking any pills and such... it just needs time to make that schedule ( it took me one week) and will... but I guess people don't have that... and if you say that the food is not enough just think of how much food is given to animals and how much of that you could eat instead of their milk (if they produce milk at all) and their flesh... doesn't that outweigh it?... furthermore... if you care so much about your healthy diet... then think also this... millions of people and children die every single day... why not help them??? see at europe and america and all you see is a bunch of overweight (sorry for the mention) people and see at asia, south america and africa where people die of HUNGER AND THIRST... and while so many animals have been sacrificed on the name of medicine without their will and consent THAT MEDICINE IS NOT GIVEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO NEED IT MORE

At the same time, in the country cows, chickens and all other animals are pampered. They are needed a couple times a day/week but other than that they can eat grass, sleep, and use the bathroom wherever they feel like. Thats pretty much it.

oh well... I guess you believe that jail is also a very good place and that confinement sure gives you every single pleasure of life too now, don't you?... if you like it so much then why not try staying your whole life in confinement (for that's exactly what it is) and even more torture (for that's exactly what animals get there) and become mad too AS ALL ANIMALS BECOME in confinement... like all animals who are being used to even goldfish... you take too much things for granted Ryu
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So what your saying is the fast food industries are the only people who toture animals? xD
I can agree with that. o.o

First of all the use of smileys and such on such things highly insults me... do you joke around your beliefs??? do you want them insulted??? no... then don't laugh about such things
Secondly... I cannot agree with that... demand brings slaughter... not slaughter demand... so if someone's at fault most it's the people who eat what gets slaughtered... think things first because you jump to conclusions

Anyway it is nessesary for humans and other living spicies to eat meat and kill other animals (not including our own kind though...).
It's survival of the fittest... also read Darwin's theory of evolution, if you ever get the chance.

Not necessary in many occasions... it was necessary in the old days to improve our brain and advance in technology... it is no more... except on certain occassions in which you have to survive as the old people which I highly doubt (in which eating your own kind is allowed since it's for your survival).
It was survival of the fittest... now it is survival of the meanest

dragonknight wrote:So what your saying is the fast food industries are the only people who toture animals? xD
I can agree with that. o.o

First of all the use of smileys and such on such things highly insults me... do you joke around your beliefs??? do you want them insulted??? no... then don't laugh about such things
Secondly... I cannot agree with that... demand brings slaughter... not slaughter demand... so if someone's at fault most it's the people who eat what gets slaughtered... think things first because you jump to conclusions

Dk it was a joke do you really think someone would be serious about that stupid of a comment? I was just trying to lighten things up here... everyone knows how serious the topic is, but if we countinued in your manner we would reach full out chaos and someone would end up getting their feelings hurt, why don't you think how the other person would feel after you post. (also faces are supposed to express emotion, what else am I going to say '*happy attitude*'?)

dragonknight wrote:Anyway it is nessesary for humans and other living spicies to eat meat and kill other animals (not including our own kind though...).
It's survival of the fittest... also read Darwin's theory of evolution, if you ever get the chance.

Not necessary in many occasions... it was necessary in the old days to improve our brain and advance in technology... it is no more... except on certain occassions in which you have to survive as the old people which I highly doubt (in which eating your own kind is allowed since it's for your survival).
It was survival of the fittest... now it is survival of the meanest

Mmmm... survival of the fittest still exists in some situations, but you're right about the survival of the meanest, like the quote goes... "good guys finish last". But that doesn't mean you should lose sight of what's right and what's wrong.

Haruko wrote:While a soul may be some sort of expression or symbol, it still represents what makes us people/animals.
The ability to make choices, thought processes, feel feelings... it's not like these are things people can just throw away.

Your "Soul" has nothing to do with that.

Tiny particles of electricity shoot from neuron to neuron, thousands of electrical impulses dictate how we thinks.
Several glands and hormones control our emotions.

You choose between choice A & B because certain words trigger certain discharges of electricity to certain neurons. That is how you think, a dictated mechanical and chemical process within your brain. Really, you have no control. Your "Soul" would be something that is able transcend that fact.

Soul wrote:

Haruko wrote:While a soul may be some sort of expression or symbol, it still represents what makes us people/animals.
The ability to make choices, thought processes, feel feelings... it's not like these are things people can just throw away.

Your "Soul" has nothing to do with that.

Tiny particles of electricity shoot from neuron to neuron, thousands of electrical impulses dictate how we thinks.
Several glands and hormones control our emotions.

You choose between choice A & B because certain words trigger certain discharges of electricity to certain neurons. That is how you think, a dictated mechanical and chemical process within your brain. Really, you have no control. Your "Soul" would be something that is able transcend that fact.

Well...I don't think haruko meant it that literal. When he was referring to the soul I believe he meant it as a representation of what makes us unique from everyone else and at the same time human.